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by: davidsirota

07/02/07 @ 09:47:44 AM MDT


A new poll out of Montana adds substantive public opinion data to the fear that Democrats chances of winning the Intermountain West would be significantly diminished if New York Sen. Hillary Clinton (D) becomes the party's presidential nominee. As the graphic at right shows, the percentage of people who say they are even willing to consider voting for Clinton is - by far - the lowest of any potential candidate. While this is just one poll from one state, Montana political landscape is fairly typical of much of the rest of the Intermountain West's - and that's why these numbers are so important.

Other details of this poll that are quite interesting:

- Al Gore's numbers are fairly decent, even in a fossil fuel-producing state where his global warming message may make him especially politically radioactive in some regional/demographic pockets. His numbers are, in fact, exactly equal to Newt Gingrich's. That's not saying all that much nationally, but in a strongly conservative state like Montana, it is surprising, and suggests that the far worse numbers for Clinton are less about a general antithesis to the past Clinton administration era, and more a specific antithesis to Hillary Clinton specifically.

- More telling about Gore's numbers are how largely they differ from Clinton's. His positives are 8 points higher and his negatives 8 points lower than Clinton's, which tells me that the antipathy for Clinton is fairly concrete.

- At least from this poll, it's fair to say that the antipathy toward Clinton is not about her East Coast home base, nor her Democratic party affiliation. Rudy Giuliani, the Republican and former New York mayor, polls quite well. So do other Democrats like Bill Richardson, Barack Obama and even Joe Biden. That's not surprising - as Ross Perot's strong showing out here suggested, this region's lack of support for Clinton may have less to do with regional or even partisan affiliation, and more to do with the region's lack of support for mushy anti-populist Clintonism preached by the Clinton/Rubin/Wall Street wing of the Democratic Party.

- This poll does not rule out (though also does not necessarily confirm) the possibility that the opposition to Clinton has something to do with her being a woman.

In his recent speech to the wreckage that is the Montana Republican Party, Colorado Republican chairman Dick Wadhams said this:

"I get a shiver down my spine every time I drive by the Pepsi Center knowing that in 2008 Hillary Clinton...Let's just see if these Western Democrats who proclaim themselves to be so different if they will actually show up in Denver and stand on that podium with Hillary Clinton in downtown Denver the last week of August in 2008."

Wadhams, as mentioned yesterday, is a pure political hack - and a fairly untalented one at that, despite reporters fawning all over him as if he is a direct, dynastic descendant of the Svengali, Rasputin and Rove blood lines. Wadhams, let's recall, is the guy most famous for helping commandeer leading presidential candidates into political oblivion, and having almost driven other Republican Senate candidates into the cliff known as early retirement.

But even a poor excuse for a political guru doesn't can read basic poll numbers and see that Clinton as the Democratic nominee could be a big anchor around Western Democrats' neck. Even someone like Wadhams can regurgitate the GOP polling points that he gets from his cronies in Washington, D.C. - the same ones printed in today's Roll Call newspaper, which reports that "Republican strategists look at the 2008 battleground map and instantly have visions in their heads of Clinton-themed TV ads and attack-mail pieces targeting vulnerable Congressional Democrats."

Whether the opposition to Clinton in this region is fair or unfair or motivated by ugly inclinations like chauvanism or not is up for debate. However, it's clear the fear of Clinton dragging the entire Democratic ticket down in this region is grounded in substance. How Democrats in the region should deal with that? Well, that could be a topic for an entire book - or at least another post in the future.

davidsirota :: New Poll Confirms Western Dems' Fear of Clinton As Cinder Block Tied to Ankle


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Hillary (4.00 / 3)
She certainly has her negatives. I don't think the DLC wing of the Democratic Party will do anything for us long-term, and it's proving its irrelevance by the day in the short-term. I also think alot of the negativity is leftover from you-know-who.

The key will be how much Hillary can break those tendencies to triangulate and how much of a fool the Republicans will put up. What was the old Chinese saying...?


Which Chinese Saying? (0.00 / 0)
Every battle is won or lost before it is ever fought. ~Sun Tzu-The Art of War. 

That one?

If You Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules!!!!


[ Parent ]
To say the least.... (0.00 / 0)
....I have serious reservations about Hilary Clinton.  I could probably rattle off 100 reasons why I don't want her to be the nominee.  What you wrote here further confirms my misgivings about her.  Clinton-themed attack ads dragging down congressional and Senatorial candidates is exactly what I fear. 

I myself try to walk a tightrope between being idealistic and being pragmatic.  Hilary Clinton is neither the idealistic nor the pragmatic choice as far as I'm concerned.

If You Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules!!!!


Western Dems (4.00 / 1)
This story shouldn't only be about the unelectability of Clinton in the Mountain West, but also about the other candidates electability and opportunity to pick up several states that went red last go around.

While McCain is running strong in polling, he's not bring in any enough money and has made a second round of lay-offs at Campaign HQ. Rudy's negatives will eventually out-weigh his electability. Fred Thompson is still just an actor with too has many skeletons in his closet which will be interesting to see how those play out with the religious cons.

Huckabee, Romney and Gingrich are the next leading R's. While Romney is the only one with a chance in this group, he's recent flip-flopping will be a strong deterent.

Interestingly enough, Tancredo is not even mentioned in the poll. I guess those who didn't announce are a better choice than second (or third) tier Republican candidates? Tancredo is also tired of campaigning, so I expect him to be thankful after the primary is over, head him to run for Congress yet again (another campaipn promise to Coloradans broken!).

Our Democratic candidates are polling strong and raising big bucks from a record setting amount of first-time contributors. We have an excellent opportunity to not only win the White House back, but in impressive form. It won't come down to a number game in FL or OH, but rather a blowout with a record number of red states flipping blue. The mountain west has been setting this up since 2004, by taking over state legislatures, governor's office and electing Dems to Congress.

Our field is strong. Be proud.


[ Parent ]
I am with you. (4.00 / 3)
We have a strong field.  My point is, everybody is so fixated on the idea that Hilary will be the nominee like it's pre-ordained.  I don't like that.  And while I believe that we have a strong field, I don't like the idea of her as the nominee because I think many other candidates could do a much better job of winning this state as well as others in the Mountain West than her.  Montana is not Colorado, but this just reinforces my grave concerns.  When I look at where the donor money is going from this state, Hilary is very low on that scale.  And I do worry about her hurting some of our people in competitive races.  The Senate race, CO-04, various Legislative seats.  Even though we have a great field, they may not have the reverse coattails to help Hilary here.

Bottom line, the candidate matters.  Whether they run for Congress, the Senate, Presidency, or state & Local races.  The wrong candidate can potentially hurt other candidates for other offices and they won't be able to help her.

If You Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules!!!!


[ Parent ]
They had a segment on NPR about this-- (4.00 / 2)
to sum up...with Obama raising $32 million, and the bulk of that coming from small donors that he can return to for future contributions, plus  his record breaking base of donors, plus the vast majority of the donations going to the primary fight...well, he's changed the playing field and HRC is no longer considered the pre-ordained shoo-in.

I hope that's true. I fear we will lose New Mexico, Montana, and Colorado if Clinton is our nominee. I think we have a good chance of turning all three states if we have any other candidate on the GE ballot besides her.


[ Parent ]
I want those three states. n/t (4.00 / 1)


If You Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules!!!!

[ Parent ]
I've wondered about this (0.00 / 0)
The poll is interesting and speaking as a native of Denver, something I expected from Montana.  The differences between Hillary Clinton and Brian Schweitzer are numerous from my perspective.

You point out that this is the result of only one poll from one state.  I would be interested to see results from a poll done in another inter-mountain state (most interested in Colorado, of course).

Is anybody aware of such a poll, either done or planned?

A Responsible Plan for Iraq: endorsed by Jared Polis


Romney at 49% (4.00 / 2)
Am I the only one giggling like a schoolgirl over the fact that a majority of Montana voters won't even consider voting for a very likely Republican nominee?

She will galvanize the Republicans (4.00 / 1)
It will be a profound mistake nominating Hillary Clinton, at least for Democrat gains in federal and state houses in the Western States. 

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