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by: johne

11/30/06 @ 08:11:52 AM MST


As many here have heard before, I'm first generation American.  My mother came here after WWII when she was five with her parents.  My grandparents fled their native Poland when the economy was in shambles during the war after resorting to bartering even jewelry with the local farmers just for basic food.  There were so many like this the Germans set up work camps by nationality.  My grandmother remembered the first bit of payment, and I mean bit, wasn't enough to buy an ice cream.  After the war they were sponsored and came to Chicago.  In kindergarten my mom learned english and helped teach my grandparents.  Last week, I interviewed my grandmother Story Corps style to get those stories and more down before even I forgot them.

I say this not to brag that my family did learn english but as background to make three points.

My grandfather had a friend from the German work camps we called Uncle Frank.  As a kid I knew a lot of aunts and uncles who weren't actually related to me.  Uncle Frank never learned english.  I don't doubt that he tried, he just never became fluent.

Second, when studying French I would often never use it to speak with other Americans when I had a choice (when not in class).  When the task is communication, the most efficient form would always win - my native tongue.  So, I can understand why entire neighborhoods continue to stay in their native languages.

Third, below is a picture of the apartment my family first lived in when they came here which I took last week:

The neighborhood, called Pilsen, was predominantly Polish at the time despite the German or Czech sounding name.

Here's the updated cornerstone of the Catholic school down the street, where my mom first learned english:

To reference a time somewhat before that, here's the original cornerstone of the church connected to the school:  Notice the likely ethnicity of the Reverend?

The school and church are now called:

And yes, in that previous photo the folks in the background have brown skin.  Just a little reminder that today's Latinos were yesterday's Polacks and Italians who were the day before that's Irish and Chinese. While the same attitudes seem to continue today, the only difference is we currently have a broken immigration system used as a convenient straw man by folks like Mad Tommy which he doesn't really want to fix because it continues to get him support and donations.

johne :: My response to Tancredo regarding ethnic neighborhoods
I posted this in another diary but Luis suggested making it its own story with a few additions.  I'll add that I have no doubt Uncle Frank must have spoke some English.  I never knew what he did for a living.  I'll have to ask as he must have held some job that kept a roof over his head and food in his belly.  That job also must have also helped him buy the many bottles of whiskey he gifted to my grandfather over the years including two bottles of bourbon I found still unopened in the bar in my grandmother's house. 

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What a beautiful story! (4.00 / 2)
Thanks for sharing.
It is impossible for those of us who have such stories to understand the Tancredo's of this country. Which is why most of us believe it can only be racism that drives them, as Luis states in this story.

Also thanks for the tip on Story Corps. I will share it with our family.

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Visit my new blog Green Chile Democrats


Now I'm gonna have to (0.00 / 0)
go read their website as they give tips on how to conduct an interview.  Maybe I'll learn something and can do more interviewing.  One can still submit and interview not made with their booths.  Maybe I'll do that yet.

[ Parent ]
Hey, I just noticed (4.00 / 1)
On the new sign -- is that a drawing of a . . . green chile?

Illegal is not a noun

[ Parent ]
no (4.00 / 1)
it's an outline drawing of Mary with the typical cloak/hooded cape.  But notice it's says Welcome in three languages, first spanish and last Polish. 

[ Parent ]
Oh, now I see it (0.00 / 0)
Gee, what an ignoramus.  I did notice the trilingual sign.

Illegal is not a noun

[ Parent ]
I tried to tell my mother (0.00 / 0)
that when my relatives came here (half of me is second generation, on my dad's side), they probably didn't learn English. 

I said to her, "Remember are those old Italian relatives in Michigan, who came over in their 50s and 60s.  Did they learn English?"

Mom says, "No."

"But dad did, didn't he?"

"Yes."

We're all immigrants.  And we've been having this same stupid racist fight for 400+ years.  All that changes is who people like Tancredo hate (though, Tancredo would have been hated just 80 some years ago).

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Great post (4.00 / 2)
I'll get on that Story Corps, too.  Grandpa was a hobo in the 30's, and that should never be forgotten.

I myself am descended from Pilgrims, the most recent immigrant from Ireland 4 generations ago, and my Euro makeup is almost entirely British, so I can't speak from personal experience about the language and cultural issues.

But my husband's family immigrated from Germany only in the 1860s.  I think he said it was his great grandfather who learned to speak English, and some of his grandparents still had slight German accents.

American culture is like the Borg.  No matter how long any group tries to remain separate, given time and inclusion, all will be assimilated.  Of course, American culture changes a bit, too.  That's what keeps us fresh and relevant and inviting to so many.

They Get Letters -- That's the spirit, George. If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.


There are a few exceptions (4.00 / 1)
the Pennsylvania Dutch come to mind, but they are exceptions that prove the rule.

I think that it is particularly notable that few Americans see a basically racial distinction between people of Northern European and Southern European origins any longer.  Half a century ago, the distinction between the Northern European WASP and the Southern Europeans was a powerful prejudice.  Now, both groups are lumped in the same ethic category in common place thinking, "Non-Hispanic White."

Given the very high rates on intermarriage among both children of Asian American immigrants and children of Latino immigrants (approaching or exceeding 50% for people with ancestors from certain countries), an extreme measure of assimiliation, and the comparatively small number of black-white couples, I suspect that forty or fifty years from now most Americans will cease to make ethnic distinictions between people of Latino, Asian and European descents, and that the United States will return to a sort a white/brown v. black dichotomy, although I have no prediction regarding what the larger of those ethnicities will be called.


[ Parent ]
indeed (0.00 / 0)
Last year I read Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides (also wrote the Virgin Suicides) which at one point describes how the Greek immigrant father was treated by Ford Motor Company in the 60s.  They basically wanted all southern Europeans, with dark(er) skin and dark hair to act and look more like northern europeans and thus be more "American"

[ Parent ]
Possible, but (0.00 / 0)
There are also a lot of Latino/Black couples.  I actually think the trend will be that the white/black taboo will continue to fade away.

Illegal is not a noun

[ Parent ]
It was just in 1982 or so (0.00 / 0)
that my mom commented to me that she thought interracial marriage was wrong because it's hard on the children.  I answered in typical snotty juvenile fashion that it's just hard because of people like her. (Ever wish you could reach back in time and whack the back of your own head?)

I myself was hoping to stir up my heavily white Northern European mixture with some hot Spanish blood, but it didn't work out.  (His sister married a guy with Irish, though.)  Instead I ended up with a tall, blond, blue-eyed Teutonic God.  Oh well.

They Get Letters -- That's the spirit, George. If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.


[ Parent ]
Just to be pedantic (4.00 / 1)
most people would say that you are actually a second generation American (as are my wife and sister-in-law). 

In majority useage in immigration literature, in my experience doing cite checking and proof reading a literature section for my wife's master's thesis which was an immigrant community study, is that a first generation American is someone born outside the United States and comes to the United States during their lifetime.  Their children are the second generation.  Their grandchildren are the third generation. 

Also, there is one informal exception to the rule.  While your grandparents would simply be called first generation, your mother would be called generation 1.5, which refers to people who are born outside the United States, but are young enough to spend much of their youth in the United States.  Generation 1.5 generally gains language fluency and assimilates to a much greater extent than those who are full fledged first generation.

The tendency to call the American born children of immigrants "second generation" may be a product of the Japanese practice of doing so, and may also be a product of the popularity of the Generation 1.5 moniker in immigrant child subcultures in immigration hotspots like California and New York, which many people in your mother's shoes these days embrace as it sums up their "in between" cultural position.

This is not to say that there isn't a minority useage (see also here) that calls "first generation" the first generation of people actually born in the United States. 

None of this detracts from your point, which is compelling and well made, and you are completely clear about the facts so that there is no harm done or confusion, however.


thanks (0.00 / 0)
I was always told the minority usage then.

[ Parent ]
Cool photos (0.00 / 0)
I've always had a certain curiosity about my heritage.

But unfortunately, I probably won't be getting any answers.

My mother is my only parent. She didn't know her mother that well and didn't ask her father any real questions before he died.

There are no blood relatives. (Making family trees such a fun things in Elementary school, as you can imagine.)

My grandfather and my mother both had/have black hair, and darker skin than I do—with a  history in California. My grandma had bright red hair and blue eyes, while my actual father had blonde hair and blue eyes.

Somehow I came out with platinum blonde hair (which turned darker) and blue eyes when I was born. I'm probably about as pale as they come. Then there's the whole "Rosa" last name thing, so who the hell knows?

I thought about doing one of those DNA makeup things, but they're way too expensive and I guess I shouldn't dwell in the past that much.


There are ways... (0.00 / 0)
When I was in 5th grade, I had a project for my Special Interest class ("Gifted Program") which was a relatively serious investigation into genealogy.  Birth records are usually the key to unlocking previous generations.

Know your father's name and birthplace?  You can find his parents' names and info.  Keep working your way back and/or out.  It's harder when you reach the point of immigration, but unless some cruel monarchy burned down the kirk where birth records were kept (cough), you can keep going back without much difficulty.

We were tasked with taking our family tree back 5 generations; with the above-mentioned exception, I had little problem.  Only one person really piqued my interest - a lady named only "Amalthea", no last name, no further info; my great aunt - who was our family genealogical "expert" - maintained our family had Native blood, and I'm assuming that had to be where it came from...  The rest of me is Irish and English, with a little Dutch thrown in in the distant past; I can trace the family name back to the second boat landing at Plymouth Rock (and from there back to a family of minor nobility in England...)

(-6.25,-5.23) The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -- Justice Louis D. Brandeis


[ Parent ]
Johne! (0.00 / 0)
You should call Ed Schultz tomorrow with this story.  Mention you posted it on the blog, and just say what went on.  Big Eddie's been raggin' on Tancredo all week.


SoapBlox - the new blog framework.

Hi fellow Pole! (0.00 / 0)
My great-grandfather came to the US from Poland in 1919 with his cousin. He left his entire family and numerous brothers and sisters behind in Poland. Wincenty first settled in a mining community in Pennslyvannia, then moved to...a very unlikely place, southeast Oklahoma. In that time period there were lots of active coal mines in SE Oklahoma, and lots of Polish, German, and Italian immigrants moved to the state to work in them. To this day, the best Italian food in the state is in a tiny, tiny town called Krebs, which is chock-full of Italians. Who'da thunk, in rural SE Oklahoma??

It was in a town in SE Oklahoma, Hartshorne, that Wincenty met his wife, my great-grandmother Helen Simonoska. She arrived in the US from Poland in 1901 as an infant with her mother.

My grandfather Eugene was, therefore, of full Polish descent. He established himself as a local businessman, owning and operating a barber shop in Eufaula, Oklahoma.

My great-grandmother Helen died when I was 6, so I have very few memories of her. My grandfather Eugene died before I was born. I really wish that I'd had the chance to learn more about my Polish ancestry and culture.


Dzie? dobry! (0.00 / 0)
Don't worry, I had to look up that spelling, but it's something I often heard growing up.

[ Parent ]
damn (0.00 / 0)
the first word displayed okay in the preview, but not after posting.  It's spelled Dzien, with an accent on the n.  For everyone else, that's pronounced roughly, Gin Dough-bree.

[ Parent ]
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