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Japanese Internment And Banning Mosque Building, Same Impulse

by: Bill Egnor AKA Something The Dog Said

Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:50:30 AM MST


Let me be clear from the start, the internment of 110,000 Japanese American citizens and residents is not exactly the same as the recent effort to stop the construction of mosques in Manhattan and elsewhere in the nation, but it is on the same spectrum, just like bigotry, prejudice and ethic hate are on the same spectrum.

It is one of our nation's greatest shames that we interred our fellow citizens without any due process and merely because of their ethnicity. In the words of President Regan in the official apology was done in a fit of

"race prejudice, war hysteria and a failure of political leadership"
.  
Bill Egnor AKA Something The Dog Said :: Japanese Internment And Banning Mosque Building, Same Impulse
The conditions were shockingly similar to the ones that are driving the Radical Right to insist that a community center two blocks from the Trade Center Plaza (where the Twin Towers used to stand) is somehow a victory terrorists. Let's try a little experiment, see if you can tell who said the following:


"A viper is nonetheless a viper wherever the egg is hatched... So, a Muslim American born of Muslim parents, nurtured upon Muslim traditions, living in a transplanted Islamic atmosphere... notwithstanding his nominal brand of accidental citizenship almost inevitably and with the rarest exceptions grows up to be a Muslim, and not an American... Thus, while it might cause injustice to a few to treat them all as potential enemies, I cannot escape the conclusion... that such treatment... should be accorded to each and all of them while we are at war with their race

Sorry about that, it was a trick question; the real quote substitutes Japanese for Muslim. It was the kind of rhetoric that was printed in a Los Angles Times just prior to the beginning of the internment. Our nation had been attacked and the reaction was to vilify not just the nation who did it, but anyone who was from that nation, regardless of how long they had lived in the United States or held citizenship here.

The hysteria about Japanese citizens being Japanese first and Americans second led us to round up and inter tens of thousands of U.S citizens. There only crime being that they had parents or grandparents who were from the nation that we were at war with. The arguments were long on heat and short on light. There was no evidence, other than bigotry and prejudice that Japanese Americans would be anything other than totally loyal to there nation. Still the heat of that time carried the day and we locked up our citizens on suspicion.

This is the same range of arguments that are being arrayed against Muslim Americans exercising their rights under our Constitution to build new mosques or in the case of NYC a new community center. We are being told that, as a group, Muslims are always going to put their faith first and their nationality second. One can see how those on the Right who value their religion before their citizenship in this nation might find this an easy argument to accept. The problem is conflicts with our system of justice.

For all the argument about religious freedom, this push to prevent the building of new mosques fails on another 1st Amendment test, the guarantee of free association. In this country we only punish actual acts, we do not punish people because of who they are friends with or go to church with. You can be pals with a drug dealer, but as long as you are not helping him or her to sell his drugs or hide the money or any other crime, you are not at risk for your friendship.

The argument that all Muslims are suspect because of the actions of a few thousand world wide is the same as arguing that all Japanese citizens in the 1940's were a security risk. The fear of the repeat of a horrific attack has sent some folks fleeing to the easiest conclusion, "we can't trust any of them, ever". It is the height of intellectual laziness to paint with a brush this broad, but the Radical Right has been losing its intellectual credibility for a long time and has returned to the same level of hysteria we had 70 years ago.

What is incredibly sad in all of this is that they have not learned the lesson of put collective guilt on a group for the actions of others in that group. In the end the United States had to pay 1.4 billion in reparations to the surviving internees. We did this not out of the generosity of our hearts, but because we had falsely and preemptively accused them of disloyalty and punished them for it. We should not do the same with our Muslim citizens. Guilty by association is a heinous thing and was anathema to the Framers of our Constitution. They went out of their way to make it clear that you are not responsible for the acts of another, no mater what the relationship. It is for this reason that "Corruption of Blood" is specifically excluded in the Constitution.

Another argument which has been brought forth is that this community center will not really serve the community it will only serve the Muslim community. To this I say, let's see. If that is indeed the case then the same rule of law that allows the construction of this center will act to prevent discrimination against non-Muslims who want to use the facilities. This is the proper way to use our laws, when an act is committed, then it is punished or reversed, not a preemptive punishment for acts that might or might not ever happen.

There is a lot of talk about how having the right to do something does not make it proper to do it. That is true as far as it goes, but what this argument misses is that the only person who gets to make that call is the person who has the right, not those who think it is the wrong thing to do. The Imam of the mosque building the community center has heard the arguments and has rejected them. This is his and his parishioners choice and they have the right to choose.

It is a right that the majority of us want protected (even if the polls show the majority of the nation thinks it is bad idea to build the community center). Would those among the Religious Right want to be limited in where they could build their churches? Wouldn't any attempt to point to the religious affiliations of the killers of abortion doctors as a reason to prevent the construction of new churches be met with outraged anger? I would be the among the first to stand up for these groups, since I do not believe in collective guilt and do stand for the Constitution, all of it for all citizens.

Yet this is the argument that Right Wing is making. Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association is insisting on a near daily basis that there be a blanket ban on mosque construction in the U.S. Here is a little of his reasoning:

Permits should not be granted to build even one more mosque in the United States of America, let alone the monstrosity planned for Ground Zero. This is for one simple reason: each Islamic mosque is dedicated to the overthrow of the American government.

Doesn't that sound a lot like the quote from the LA Times in the '40? It does to me. The President has stood up against this type of intolerance and hysterical fear. It is important that all of us do the same. We could ban mosque construction, we could assume that every American Muslim does not really want to live in a free country and supports the institutions that have made it free, history shows that we can do these kinds of things. History also shows that sooner or later we will realize that it was a huge and costly mistake. Why not cut to the chase and do the right thing, the American thing. Let's let any Muslim group build their mosques and community centers. If they or their members break the law, then lets investigate, prosecute and punish the guilty.

To do anything less it is to betray the ideal of equal justice under the law for all citizens. That is not a betrayal I am willing to countenance.

The floor is yours.

House Keeping: There have been some Radical Right Wingers who have been beating me up for my stand on this issue. They are almost surely reading this, be sure to wave (politely, please) to them in comments.  

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If only they had open minds...
They'd listen to you. You argue your point well. Unfortunately, as soon as you tell them they're wrong, they stop listening.

You know the arguement is not really for the hard
core Radical Right, but for those who are just kind of on the edge of this issue. If you just hear "Mosque, Ground Zero" then just about everyone's knee-jerk response is going to be negative. However there are host of reasons why we should not try to prevent that and getting those reasons out there is important.

Not that it will prevent the Right Wing Wurlitzer from excoriating me for it.

Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain.  


[ Parent ]
I agree. We need to argue against the fear and hate
Even those on the Radical Right need to hear that not everyone agrees with them.

[ Parent ]
It has been a practice in Islam to build mosques on sacred sites,
as a way to demonstrate Islamic dominance.  For instance, the Dome of the Rock is built on one of the most sacred sites of all of Judaism.  

So here, we have this dilemma: Our religious and cultural tradition honors freedom of worship above all, we would have to repudiate this tradition to ban the mosque. Do we abandon our tradition to defeat theirs?

Someone has suggested that a Honey-Baked Ham store, a rash of X-rated businesses, and a kennel be put next to the structure -- now, a Burlington Coat Factory outlet. Suddenly, owning pot-bellied pigs (and walking them past the mosque) becomes all the rage....


Well, it is not only Islam., The Cathedral in Mexico
City is built directly on top of the Aztec Capital city and chief shrine.

Plus this group is surely not doing that. They are anti-extremist and the Imam was sent by the Bush administration on good will tours in the Middle East. This is all a made up controversy. After all there is a mosque in the Pentagon, and no one is making a fuss about that. How is the Twin Towers site more sacred?  

Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain.  


[ Parent ]
That's an assumption
and a paranoid assumption at that. I don't believe in any of the religions in large partly because I don't like their history of indoctrination through savage domination. Your argument against building the mosque is an argument against building many religious symbols. I believe this issues creates such fervor because it attacks a deeply held irrational belief about America's identity. Given one of America's best features is religious tolerance, this is particularly shameful.  

[ Parent ]
Several problems here . . .
It isn't a mosque being built, it's an Islamic cultural center.

It's not at ground zero, or anywhere visible from ground zero -- it's over two Manhattan blocks away.

And lastly, the Islamic ownership of the property in question, and the current Islamic cultural center predates the construction of the original World Trade Center.

That's really some demonstration of "Islamic dominance."


[ Parent ]
Selective perception.
Bigotries, and fixed beliefs of all kinds, look for what justifies them, avoids seeing what doesn't, and protects the fortress of delusions against all threats leveled by reality.

We're all in this story together; let's write it well.

[ Parent ]
You Couldn't Even See the WTC from 51 Park Place
It has been a practice in Islam to build mosques on sacred sites,
as a way to demonstrate Islamic dominance.  For instance, the Dome of the Rock is built on one of the most sacred sites of all of Judaism.  

So here, we have this dilemma: Our religious and cultural tradition honors freedom of worship above all, we would have to repudiate this tradition to ban the mosque. Do we abandon our tradition to defeat theirs?

First, the example cited is not universal and ignores the historical significance of the Temple Mount to Islamic beliefs--note that this is a religious site for Muslims because their holy books cite it as the location of Muhammad's being "taken up to heaven" not as a mark of their conquest of a people.  In fact, the Jewish Temple was destroyed not by the Caliph Umar in 637 but by Romans under Trajan.  Regardless, there is no news being published that the United States has been conquered by Islamic religious fanatics to my knowledge, though we in Colorado some times do not receive all the news as quickly as those on the coasts where the evil Islamists want to build a religious site.

Second, it's location is at 51 Park Place.  Do a map search.  It is blocked by very high buildings between it and the site of the destroyed buildings.  One would have had to look straight up and to the right, to see even a glimpse of the earlier existent WTC towers from the front door. There is no way that anyone in the proposed 15 story building will be able to even see the site because it is blocked by even higher buildings between it and the site.  

Anyone who had been to that part of Manhattan would know that this is the case. For those who have not, please consider that Manhattan has twice the population of Denver on 15% of the land area. During the workday, it increases to 3 times the population.  And, the buildings are very dense and very tall in both Lower Manhattan (where this "controversy" is sited along with Wall Street) and in Midtown (think of Empire State Building, Trump Tower and Rockefeller Center), not at all like Denver or similar sized cities.

Third, A lot of people live and work there, in that immediate neighborhood, some of them of the faith of Islam, and that an Islamic center has been in the neighborhood for decades. This is not a new thing.  Remember just how dense Lower Manhattan and Midtown are. People live in very tall buildings there.

This whole "controversy"  is an attempt to energize uninformed, usually right wing supporting, voters who hear only "Islamic Center at Ground Zero", a fallacious claim.  It is very likely a noise making point generated by Karl Rove or one of his acolytes, and it's been taken up by our incompetent press seeking "news" in a hot August week.  In that it is not at all unlike the "teabagger protests" we saw last year.  


[ Parent ]
Extremely well stated, saindenver.
n/t

[ Parent ]
I Seem to Recall a Rule about Trolls
Trolls are what you mean in your ultimate paragraph?

I don't mean our local trolls.
The folks a Newsbusters and Andrew Brietbarts websites have been hitting me for my point about the terror attacks being about the optics as opposed to the actual level of harm. They may or may not come here so I wanted to give a heads up.  

Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain.  

[ Parent ]
They Were Wrong about Iraq and Are Wrong Now
You are right about that, a lot of people were killed at one time, but our military was not damaged as it was in Pearl Harbor, the real difference between the false parallels drawn between that real military attack and the civilian act of terrorism by the Chickenhawk Keyboardists. Don't worry about their small minds which would have America become a true Imperium America as their Bush Administration leaders would have had us all believe. You must be reaching them and their followers or, else, you would have been ignored.  

[ Parent ]
Maybe. Or it could be that I was a little
too blunt with the "more about optics than actual harm" line and they figure they can pillory me and everyone at the sites where I post with that bluntness.  

Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain.  

[ Parent ]
They Just Want to Appeal to Their Amen Chorus
I don't think you were too blunt. As one who lost two former business partners in Tower One and as one who watched the towers being built, toured Tower Two before it was partitioned and rented and had numerous business meetings there and many meals at Windows on the World, I had great reason to be attached to what happened.

However, as anyone who had been reading news for years beforehand, it was apparent that the Al Qaeda, about 10,000 disaffected and often stupid wannabe terrorists, had wanted to fly airplanes into buildings which represented "the corrupt West" [where have we heard that term before, Soviets maybe?].  From the mid-1990's there were occasional articles or mentions about it in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, but they were not large news items and usually buried in the back pages.

Though I was concerned that our Air Force had not planned for attacks such as these, my reaction in 2001 was, as I hoped it would have been by other Americans, to capture or kill the leaders and stop disable the movement. This has been done before, but this time our extreme Republican friends thought that they could use it as an election lever, as they had thought that FDR had done with Pearl Harbor.  They forgot, or chose to forget, that Pearl Harbor was a military loss, the Pacific Fleet was destroyed there and could no longer act as a block for naval action against the US west coast, its cities and its sea transport; the terrorist attacks in 2001 were not.

Yes, WTC was used for its optics. Those who use it never question the ill preparation by the military for it, after all, the attack took some time and at least one of the four hijacked planes could have been intercepted.  Those who attack you know this, they ignore it, and they hypocrites.  


[ Parent ]
I tried to make a comment at Brietbart but it was deleted
I know, can you believe it?  

[ Parent ]
Shocking! Just freaking shocking I tell you!
It must be a technical problem.... yeah that's it!  

Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain.  

[ Parent ]
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