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Obama - 2 Billion for Solar - thousands employed in Colorado

by: wade norris

Sat Jul 03, 2010 at 10:23:43 AM MST


Abound Solar Manufacturing ... will manufacture advanced solar panels at two new plants, creating more than 2,000 construction jobs and 1,500 permanent jobs.  A Colorado plant is already underway, and an Indiana plant will be built in what's now an empty Chrysler factory.  When fully operational, these plants will produce millions of state-of-the-art solar panels each year.

wade norris :: Obama - 2 Billion for Solar - thousands employed in Colorado
This is the direction the President needs to go - creating Clean energy jobs which are permanent and which include manufacturing in the United States.

more:
   

...Abengoa Solar, a company that has agreed to build one of the largest solar plants in the world right here in the United States.  After years of watching companies build things and create jobs overseas, it's good news that we've attracted a company to our shores to build a plant and create jobs right here in America.  In the short term, construction will create approximately 1,600 jobs in Arizona.  What's more, over 70 percent of the components and products used in construction will be manufactured in the USA, boosting jobs and communities in states up and down the supply chain.  Once completed, this plant will be the first large-scale solar plant in the U.S. to actually store the energy it generates for later use - even at night.  And it will generate enough clean, renewable energy to power 70,000 homes.

Thoughts?

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Will This Become a Division of China's Solar Power?
There has been a depressingly large number of these projects which develop technologies and, as Andy Grove says here the scale up with profits and future improvements, goes offshore.  [For those who are unfamiliar with Andy Grove, he is one of Intel's founders and one time president of Semitech.]  The question is will this USG help keep the jobs in the US or will the company either be acquired by a Chinese or Indian firm or simply offshore its core value, its technology of scale.   I am concerned that it will be the latter.

Perhaps there is a way ...
to include some sort of clawback language mandating that the assistance be immediately rescinded and paid back in full, with hefty interest, if the company is ever purchased by foreign entity.

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"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that." --- Britney Spears, September 2003


[ Parent ]
That Is Insufficient
We are discussing huge national wealth matters here.  Clawback sounds nice, but I would be very happy to repay $900 million or more if I had control of a technology which will change the world and can be made in my county.  There has been a national "industry policy" favoring non-manufacturing businesses in the United States since early in the Reagan Presidency and it's causing decline in our jobs, our knowledge and our well being. Kevin Phillips has been pointing this out in three of his books, Wealth and Democracy, American Dynasty and American Theocracy.  So has Andy Grove, and Jeff Immelt.  Making things is a lot of work, but if we don't come back to doing that, say goodbye to our standard of living and or world power.  

[ Parent ]
Are you talking about a transfer of patentable technologies?
If so, I misunderstood the concern you were raising. I would agree that that's a far greater issue than the physical placement of a particular manufacturing plant.

------------------------------
"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that." --- Britney Spears, September 2003


[ Parent ]
Having now found the time to read the Grove piece,
I get exactly what you're saying. Wow, very insightful and sobering.  

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"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that." --- Britney Spears, September 2003


[ Parent ]
Barack looks so tired.
But yes, this is absolutely the direction in which we should go. We need to use that last little bit of oil to build sustaining technologies. I could despise my neighbor, be near-daily annoyed with my commute, and suffer security lines at the inter galactic air station but if I have a food garden in my neighborhood, a solar-powered train to take me where I want to go, and an alien-technology fueled space-jaunt automator then I might call it utopia.

There Is No Doubt That Alternatives Need Support
Most appear ignorant of the subsidies for petroleum and nuclear energy provided by the US government.  But, ask nearly anyone if alternatives should be subsidized and you will hear a strongly worded lecture about "no industry policy" and "let the free markets work".  Of course that is not the case for nuclear nor oil and gas.  There is no doubt that oil and gas will be needed for decades to come; but there should be a plan, much as there was at the turn of the last century for petroleum, to assure that these technologies come forth.  Otherwise, they won't.  Don't believe me, look at ESSO (earlier name of Exxon) ads in the Saturday Evening Post in 1947 or 48 which pointed out the expectation of running out of oil by the sixties. Of course we haven't, and the production costs of alternatives have always been about 20-40%/bbl more than the equivalent of petroleum.  Anyone want to guess why?

[ Parent ]
I'll take a guess
but first I want to again plug my longstanding religious tenet that the free market has never existed, thx.

My guess is that we haven't been able to expand alternatives because technology is patented (which is very un-free market, dontcha think?) and there are very interested wealth parties who have the ability to make substantial contributions to certain decision makers who will very unpoetically spout the philosophies of said interested wealth parties while blocking the R&D of sustainable energy production.  


[ Parent ]
The Patents Are Not the Issue
Some factors in this 60 year drama are:
  1. federal subsidies for favored technologies
  2. market strength to set equilibrium prices making alternatives continuously "too costly".  As an example, consider that the lower price of crude oil (tracked by gasoline and fuel oils) fell more than 50% by 1985 as the North Sea and North Slope fields became productive.  In 1981, federal subsidies were removed from alternative initiatives with their business and technology models based on $50-60/bbl crude.  The same thing occurred in the late 1940's as Saudi oil began to come into play.
  3. in the mid-1970's, after ESSO changed its name, it began to fund intraprenueral subsidiaries to bring some of the then-current technologies to market.  Once there was more crude on the market, these subsidaries were either folded into the parent for special uses or were spun off and eventually closed.
  4. Battery technology, is being heavily developed in China, whose investment bankers are seeking early stage technology to move to that country to supplement their current lead.  Some day, review the case of Electrosource, the "transportation" battery brought into being by Frank McBee, Tracor Founder and long-time CEO.  This technology was an early precursor of the current lithium technology owned by China firms. Though our taxes pay for research into these technologies, their development and control are offshore.   Remember that electrics are heavier and were not as responsive as petroleum-fueled vehicles so were less marketable than their subsidized fuel alternatives.


Incremental improvements in products and critical industries have been moving offshore for a number of reasons, including US government policy through tax incentives for doing so and to prop up conventional carbon and nuclear fuels.  Until we realize this and do something about it, we are in greater and greater danger.  

[ Parent ]
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