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On The Protection Of Hateful Speech -Westboro Baptist Church

by: Bill Egnor AKA Something The Dog Said

Wed Mar 17, 2010 at 06:43:30 AM MST


A couple of days ago someone pointed out that I had two differing views on a topic in the same post. It came from my need to give some credence to the ideas that disagree with mine, but it is not the only time I find myself in conflict with myself. Take the situation with the incredibly vile and to my mind utterly worthless members of Westboro Baptist Church. These are the malignant and maleficent idiots that protest at military funerals with signs that say such warm and fluffy things as "Semper Fi Fags" and "God Hates You". They are protesting what they see as the over acceptance of homosexuality in America. They believe that God is punished the United States with 9/11 for our tolerance of our gay citizens.  
Bill Egnor AKA Something The Dog Said :: On The Protection Of Hateful Speech -Westboro Baptist Church
This is where the conflict comes about. On the one hand they are out there protesting against people that I have lived with all my life. I was a kid actor; I basically grew up in a small professional kid's repertory theater. There were gay and lesbian adults among our stage managers, our directors and our choreographers. There were gay kids in the troop. Even in the late 70's and 80's it was no big deal. They are and were good artists and performers and that mattered a hell of a lot more than whom they were dating or living with.

As egalitarian as things were inside that community it was not all peaches and cream. When Sid got the crap kicked out of him by some local skinhead punks, it came home to me how little tolerance the world had for some of the most important people in my life at that time. I am not proud of the fact that several of us went out and met violence with violence by kicking the crap out of that group of punks, but it seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

It has been and will be a central focus of my political life to work so that all citizens have the same rights and privileges as all other citizens. To be denied rights because of your gender or sexuality or ethic group is unacceptable and always will be.

The problem I have with the Westboro haters is my desire to have equal rights for all means that I support the Constitution. I support it all the time and in whole, not just when it is protecting those that I agree with. While what they are doing is heinous and very nearly inhuman it is protected by the 1st Amendment's free speech clause and about 100 years of case law.

Westboro has been sued by the family of one of the soldiers whose funeral they showed up at. Marine Lance Corporal Mathew Snyder died in Iraq as was being buried in 2003 when the radical cleric Phelps and his deluded and bitter church members showed up to protest at his funeral. The Snyder family was, as you might expect, appalled and furious at this action.  They filed suit against Westboro and were initially awarded $10 million dollars.

The case was overturned by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals and has been appealed to the United States Supreme Court. It will be heard by the High Court this coming fall. The argument that the Snyder's are making is that their right to assemble peaceably and their right to practice their religion are being infringed on by the protection of the Westboro Baptist Church's rights to political free speech.

It is unlikely that they are going to get a lot of traction with either of these arguments. On the religious freedom argument they are going to run into the problem of asking the State to decide between two religious beliefs, Westboro's or the Snyder's. While the State should not interfere with the religious practice of the Snyder's, it is even worse for it to become involved in deciding which religious belief is more valid. Look for the High Court to say something along those lines.

On the free assembly argument they are likely to lose because while the actions of Westboro are distressing (to say the least) they are not actively disruptive in and of themselves. The press coverage of the protest and the desire for good video of angry mourners is disruptive, but the hateful morons of Westboro are not actually committing those acts of disruption.

In the end the Fourth Circuit got it right when they said  

"... As utterly distasteful as these signs are they involve matters of public concern, including the issue of homosexuals in the military, the sex-abuse scandal within the Catholic Church, and the political and moral conduct of the United States and its citizens."


It is surprising that the Supreme Court is willing to hear a case that seems so settled on its face. There must be some sympathy to the plaintiff's arguments among the Justices for it to be heard. Still this court has shown itself ready to wade into what is considered settled law on other issues (gun control in particular) even when there is a good chance that they will be unable to resolve the questions that would result from overturning previous decisions.

The evil fools of Westboro are completely unsympathetic defendants. No normal, caring citizen would ever think that what they are doing and the words they use to do it are acceptable. These people are desperate sick attention seekers hiding behind out Constitutional tolerance of religion. That said they are also citizens of the United States and as such they have a right to say any hurtful, hateful foolish thing they like about the policies of this nation. It is a right we on in the blogosphere cherish and use every day. To restrict them is to open the door for us to be restricted.

The best remedy for heinous objectionable speech is more speech, not less. Which is why I am really proud of the members of the Patriot Guard Riders; they are group of motorcycle riders who volunteer their time (and frankly intimidating demeanor) to shielding the families of the war dead from protesters of any kind. They were formed in response to the Westboro Baptist Church's actions, but they don't specialize there. If you are so callus as to think that the funeral of a soldier is a good place to make your political point, they are going to do every legal and peaceful thing they can to get in between you and the family of the dead.

This is the 1st Amendment in its finest tangible form. There is no limit to the things that Westboro can say, but there is also no limit to the verbal response from other citizens. It is what the Framers intended, for ideas good, bad or ugly to be put out and either accepted or refuted by other free speakers in society.

While it tears me up to defend the rights of such a hateful group, it is what must be done if we want to have a pluralistic and free society. If the State starts choosing what religious expression wins or if it starts to limit the ability for minority speech (no matter how wrong or evil) to be heard, we are in for a hell of a lot of trouble. While it is painful for the families of the dead to have to deal with this, there are times when we have to look at the overall affect on our society of trying to do the right thing to shield them from such hateful acts. It is far better that some big and tough looking bikers stand up for the rights of all than it is for us to slowly chip away at our ability to speak our minds.

The floor is yours.  

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A touch off of what you are really talking about
but I really like the line
...it came home to me how little tolerance the world had for some of the most important people in my life at that time.

That is the biggest reason why I am not a Christian. As a small child, I maybe could have looked past the lack of dinosaurs-thing but when it came to seeing Christians use their religion as a weapon of idiotic hate and manipulative philosophy, I couldn't bear it any longer.  


It is not all Christians, of course, but there do seem
to be a large number of them that do think that way.  

Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain.  

[ Parent ]
I hate it too
The thought of defending Westboro's, the KKK's, or other hate group's right to spread their poison bothers me, but I'm always left with the same thought -- it's the first amendment and it's their right the same as it is mine to share my views.

We cannot legislate which speech we should and should not protect or we will wake up one day and find ourselves in a very bad situation.

Sorry Michael Bennet, but I'm a real person too


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