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The Ugly Truth About #OccupyDenver

by: Fong

Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 08:17:00 AM MST


I've been on the PR team of Occupy Denver for about two months now and that involvement has shown me the underbelly of the beast. Keep in mind that everything I write below is just the the tip of the iceberg and understand that I write this because I'm tired of witnessing the consistent reckless behavior that puts innocent people at risk.

At the December 3rd rally, Corey Donahue, who sexually assaulted a photographer, gave a speech in support of his Walmart blockade he managed to pass through the General Assembly he frequently renounces as illegitimate and ineffective. He spoke about the need for people to put their "bodies on the line" for the action. I pulled him aside and he tells me that the goal of his action is "bring out hundreds of police to show the world that the police are defending corporate america and not the protestors." In the midst of my shock about the stupidity and lack of transparency of his motivation, he reminds me that he is under legal advice to not get arrested again because he has too many prior offenses, so he won't be participating in his call to put bodies on the line.

How he has a shred of credibility after hiding behind his priors while telling people to put their lives on the line, I can only attribute to his feeding the homeless (and then encouraging them into being fodder??).

Can you say David Koresh?

Fong :: The Ugly Truth About #OccupyDenver
Then there was the tents.

Occupiers would set up tents during peak crowd hours with the intention of bringing in the cops to crack heads, in an effort to show the world that the police are brutal.

Yeah, the public has had numerous opportunities to do something about police brutality, but not much is done about it. So why use innocent people, who want a safe place to protest with a community of like-minded people, as fodder for a stupid plan? And why don't other Occupy Denver people do anything about it? Why do they refuse to recognize it?

Oh right, this is why. They're twisting St Paul Principle #1 "We respect a diversity of tactics."

And then there was talk about a plan to burn cars for the Walmart blockade Monday morning. Once I got wind of the tentative plan, I put out a tweet (which has since been censored and removed) stating "Anyone planning violence/destruction for the 12/12 Walmart action are warned from doing so and will be dealt with by Occupy Denver and by any means necessary."

Cos yeah, if you're going to put innocent people at risk, I'll break my silence and revulsion for the police, and I'll call for their help because it's the only help available.  Sadly, in this case, the police are better than Occupiers.

Bullying, backstabbing and all that good stuff has been used by people at Occupy Denver in the stead of affinity. There is really nothing that can tie people together for a common cause when one party is hell-bent on juvenile domination. You should see the way otherwise good people compromise with the insane!

So because of that tweet, I was accused of fueling rumors and lies and helping the police. But if someone went through with that stupid, pointless plan, I'd be implicated in the crime during the investigation because I know that someone talked about it and I did nothing. So I did something. Yet somehow, I'm the bad guy for tweeting about accountability? And then it gets censored? Wow.

There are serious transparency and accountability issues at Occupy Denver.

I wish I could say good things. When people corner me about my involvement in OD, I feel bad that I don't have good things to say.

I'd like to say "we're a community that welcomes the working class and we're slowly but surely working towards solving problems" but instead there are privileged kids, who have been waiting to pounce on a movement like this to implement their juvenile delusions about revolution.

My armchair psychoanalysis of some Denver Occupiers is that they aren't interested in the work it takes to create real change. They'd rather have the emotional satisfaction of saying "hey, I have a hard core idea about revolution and if you aren't in, then it's because you're a pussy and I'm superior. So really it's your fault if it doesn't happen."

It's weak, it's egotistical, and it's never going to work.

So far I've seen ass-kissing, fear-mongering, death threats, theft, fights, using innocent people as a shield, lies about union endorsements, ulterior motives, lots and lots of messianic bullshit, and of course, shirking responsibility.

Until I see some major changes, I'm not at all enthusiastic about Occupy Denver.

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Thank you
What knuckleheads like you describe don't understand is that their movement will be short-lived because regular working folks don't want to put up with their shenanigans.  We can't afford to mix it up with the cops for the sake of mixing it up.  We have kids to feed, houses to keep out of foreclosure.

When these folks assign a broom-and-dustpan detail to sweep up the damage they leave behind, then we can talk.  Until then, some of us will Occupy in more sane ways.


sorry...
Meant to say "knuckleheads like the people you're describing..."

More of the same
This is some ageist bullshit. As a young person who has taken part in Occupy Denver, I'm offended that you call us "privileged kids, who have been waiting to pounce on a movement like this to implement their juvenile delusions about revolution."

Fuck you. What has your generation done for me? Put me in debt just to get an education, sent my cousin to a war he can't win in Afghanistan, sent my friends all over the world fighting some invisible enemy in the war on "terror." The terror is right here. Tens of thousands of people are homeless just in Denver. I took self-defense training because I have to worry about getting bashed for holding my boyfriend's hand. The bankers own the politicians, and the politicians own the police. This country is in deep shit, and it needs a revolution badly. And since your generation has fucked this country over quite enough, it will be us with our "juvenile delusions" who will fix this shit, with or without you.

Students, even those of privilege, have traditionally been the allies of workers in social movements all over the world. Look at the French strikes of 1968. If you want change, don't cooperate with the police who protect the status quo. They're class traitors who've sold us out for their own slice of a non-existent pie. They're gonna get fucked over in the end too, but not until they silence every dissenting voice.

And not much as been done about police brutality? Did you march with us on October 22nd? Did you drop a banner over the I-25 overpass? Wake up. Just because you're not the one doing something doesn't mean it isn't being done.


WTF!! WTF??
Did you even read the article?  

 Do or do not, there is no try.  

[ Parent ]
Try actually reading what Fong wrote.
She's on your side.

------------------------------
"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that." --- Britney Spears, September 2003


[ Parent ]
Try looking at what she actually does
People who cooperate with the cops are not on my side.

[ Parent ]
Will you say that if a crime affects you?
You'd have to cooperate with the cops to get results, you know.

[ Parent ]
You pull this shit out of your ass
about cooperating with the cops but you fail to hold accountable those who would put yourself and others like you in danger.

When some moron starts talking about about blowing up cars for an action, and then when people try to stop that person (because it's a stupid idea), then the only fucking defense people can come up with is something not related to reality. It's awesome. Just register as a Republican already. I think you could really help them out with more gossip mongering, detachment, and dissociation.

This is how Occupiers suck: so many aren't committed to accurately perceiving reality, so you resort to just making shit up. It's fucking crazy. Good luck to you.

...And I'm technically a part of your generation. But, ya know, whatever. Thanks for playing.  


[ Parent ]
Do you have any proof for this claim?
Or did you just butt buddy up with Corey Donahue and now you're convinced?

 Do or do not, there is no try.  

[ Parent ]
If you think this is about generational divides
Then you're a complete moron.  Knock the chip off your shoulder and realize you're walking in the footsteps of older people.  

Stop making it hard for people to support you, or they'll just leave you to your own devices.  Try walking a mile in a worker's or a minority's shoes and then come back and comment.


[ Parent ]
This is about generational divides.
The author uses the phrase juvenile and calls us privileged kids. That's ageism.

Also, I don't really care if the people who created (or allowed the creation of) this mess support me or not. Quite frankly, older generations had their chance to stop all of this before it happened, and failed.

Also, don't make assumptions about me. I am a worker, I work two jobs to put myself through school. I'm already in debt, and I've only been here for a semester. And last time I checked, LGBTQ people only make up at most 10% of the population, so it looks like I'm a minority too...


[ Parent ]
So do you condone crimes?
Do you condone the theft of money from OD's war chest?  What was it...wasn't it $500 to go to Los Angeles or something?

Isn't it also "ageist" to blame "the mess" on older people?  

Hopefully you're registered to vote.  Fixing democracy means getting into the game.


[ Parent ]
Occupy started out
in the tradition of Gandhi and Martin Luther King, i.e. having the wisdom and discipline to know that setting cars on fire and pilfering money from the donation box to fund some teenybopper couple's West Coast vacation is not going to generate widespread support for the movement. WTF happened? At what point did the movement get taken over by crooks, psychos, morons and common vandals?  

------------------------------
"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that." --- Britney Spears, September 2003


[ Parent ]
Donahue was a big factor in that
and I hear he's claiming Fong is an FBI informant now.

It's very clear to me that most people down there think their anger is enough to get them the results they think they want. Somehow they believe that occupying is the most important form of protest. It's pretty uncomfortable to see them  calling out for supplies because they're about to get evicted again. Is it really a good use of resources to call out for more and more donations with every eviction? Why don't they change strategy? Is this just enabling them? What happens when the public finds out they've been duped? A. It makes the whole movement look bad and detracts support. Pretty simple.

If you've ever been down there at night, you know how frightening it can be. They act like a gang of crazy thugs. It's bizarre.  

 Do or do not, there is no try.  


[ Parent ]
Solutions agreeable to all are always hard to come by
Last thing needed at this point is "Occupiers" going at each other, and others not participating just piling on. Fong was right to call out the problematic bad plan of car burning and deserves support for her actions.
Good on her for all she has done up to this point. Every anarchistic move proposed is not by default worthy of consideration; most of them aren't viable under any circumstances anyway, and in general counterproductive to changing the problems that all concerned are  working to address. Ghandi/MLK certainly had more effective strategies outside of that approach entirely, absolutely worthy of consideration based on their effectiveness alone!

Studentpower is just as entitled to her/his opinion as anyone else, and to a degree what she/he says contains some truth. Wisdom,patience, and discipline are not the relm of the young generally. But, movements that have amounted to historical significance have proven to have a student partipation element that provides much energy and entheusiasm, as well as direction and follow through. This is not justification for taking out all her/his anger on those close enough to hear and see her/him.

Mucius: I have enjoyed your commentary on many topics, and you've got some good commentary here. Not everybody still involved is a vandal, criminal, or psycho, and describing the participating remenant as such is not constructive, even if some of the crazies hanging out deserve such derision. This is the path to dividing and conquering Occupy groups all over the world are having to find ways to deal with. Certainly this is possible her in Colorado of all places.  


Of course,
not every person remaining in the movement is a vandal, criminal, or psycho; my point was that those elements have gained far too much influence over the direction of the movement, sullying its message and greatly diminishing its ability to grow into a more effective, broad-based social movement.

------------------------------
"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that." --- Britney Spears, September 2003


[ Parent ]
Sharing....The Populist Moment-Goodwyn
Musius Y Fong:

From Lawrence Goodwyn's 1978 study of the original US populist movement that William Grieder has freely referenced of late. This movement is a closer precursor to what is being attempted now IMHO than the civil rights movement, and as such is worthy of closer study:

"The sequencial process of democratic movement-building will be seen to involve four stages: (1)the creation of an autonomous institution where new interpretations can materialize that run counter to those of prevailing authority--a development which for the sake of simplicity, we may describe as "the movement forming"; (2)the creation of a tactical means to attract masses of people--"the movement recruiting"; (3) the achievement  of a heretofore culturally unsanctioned level of social analysis--"the movement educating"; and (4) the creation of an institutional means whereby the new ideas, shared now by the rank and file of the mass movement, can be expressed in an autonomous political way--"the movement politicized."

Imposing cultural roadblocks stand in the way of a democratic movement at every stage of the sequential process, causing losses in the potential constituencies that are to be incorporated into the movement. Many people may not be successfully "recruited," many who are recruited may not become adequately "educated," and many who are educated may fail the final test of moving into autonomous political action. The forces of orthodoxy, occupying the most culturally sanctioned command posts in the society, can be counted upon, out of self-interest, to oppose each stage of the sequential process--particularly the latter stages, when the threat posed by the movement has become clear to all. In the aggregate, the struggle to create a mass democratic movement involves intense cultural conflict with many built-in advantages accruing to the partisans of the established order."

Get the book if you can! Available at the local library and Amazon. A good read, and this part is onlly from the introduction.

In Occupydenver, it seems the education part may need ramping up to bolster the recruitment stages, even if it might seem to put the cart before the horse a bit.


[ Parent ]
What gives me hope
is that the occupy brand is open source. As things get worse, and more and more of the planet dies, taking all its inhabitants with it, hopefully the cream, rising to the top, may latch onto the Occupy meme's sentiment, and start to create the change necessary. I look forward to being a part of that.

If, on the other hand, Occupy Denver doesn't get rid of the collective apathy it has towards asking and answersing simple questions about accountability and hierarchy, then it will take the Occupy brand down a notch. Most of what I've seen at Occupy Denver is Lord of the Flies type of shit.

Keep the faith, Pullma. Change is constant, and discipline is a constant choice.  


[ Parent ]
Like most destructive and reckless things
many who are still standing are ego-drivel.

The plots against me are thickening. For me, it's an excellent way to identify those who refuse to think for themselves.

...until I get bored. Which will be soon because it's boring.  


[ Parent ]
I'm pretty disgusted
I was a supporter of Occupydenver for a while but quickly became uninterested in the pettiness. I think constantly asking for donations so they can keep sleeping in the park is fucked up. I was pretty friendly with some people down there but a lot of loud mouth hypocrites like this guy Chris Schiano who can't do anything but harass people online (you may know him, he's got a really annoying voice) is mundane and, like you put it fong, weak and juvenile.

And your analysis of their psychology is right on. It's called narcissistic personality disorder.  


:) Hi,
thanks. Thanks for reminding me about our annoying-voiced friend.

[ Parent ]
Did you finally get to see him hop around the GA?


[ Parent ]
Oh no. I've never met him
I've just heard from everyone that he has a galling voice.  

[ Parent ]
The truth about Occupy Denver
I belong to a motorcycle forum on Delphi that has morphed into being very politically aware of recent, as many forums have.

The following is a copy and paste of a post I made on that forum when this site and specifically this post was brought to our attention:

"Very, very interesting indeed.

"Of course, being that most despised "moderate" that both sides seem to take issue with, I feel her [Fong's] pain.

"Here is a person with some excellent points, and a far more realistic view of what civil disobedience is intended to be, and she gets lambasted with vulgar vituperation and vile venom from her own ranks.

"What happened to 'We're a democracy"? What happened to everybody gets a say? What happened to reaching consensus through discourse and discussion?

"Nope, not to be found here. The responses she got to that well thought out and cogent post only serves to highlight the hypocrisy within the movement.

"Yeah, everybody gets a say...as long as you agree with the radicals that are pushing others in harms way while cowering in the shadows.

"The instigator for violence demurs from participating in the violence he advocates because...he's afraid of getting arrested?????

"Dude...that's why you DO civil disobedience. If you didn't get arrested, you ain't doin' it right.

"And no, I don't mean getting arrested for setting cars on fire. I mean holding your ground, maintaining your sit in, offering NO resistance other than possibly going limp, and looking forward along with the others that did the same to your day in court.

"That's what Ghandi taught. That's what King preached. To do otherwise is to solidify the resolve of your opponents.

"These folks need to take a page from those students at UC Davis. Those kids DEVASTED the opposition, and made great strides at enlisting the support of fence sitters.

"And without raising a finger or raising their voices.

"The kids at UC Davis had my wife in tears and ready to give her full support.

"Set ONE car on fire, and she'd be sayin' to lock 'em up.

"They're ignorant and foolish, but idiots?

"Yeah...okay...you win...they're idiots...

"Ride safe,

CR"

And one other point:

Recognizing that youth is lacking of wisdom, born of making mistakes and learning from those mistakes, is NOT ageism.  It is repeatable and reproducable scientific fact.

I suggest that the more radical, young people of this movement are not old enough to remember or have learned the lesson's of the Watts riots, nor the lesser infamous ones of Jacksonville, Atlanta, and a myriad of the other metropolitan areas during the 60's, accomplishing nothing more than exacerbating the suffering of those doing the rioting, nor do they have memory of Ghandi's minions, laying upon the railroad tracks of India, offering nothing but passive resistance, ultimately toppling the British rule of that day.

So go ahead.  Take that violence to the streets.  See if it works out any better for you than it did with the inmates of Attica.

It won't.

That violence had the opposition circling the wagons.  It took a Martin Luther King with his message of brotherhood and solidarity to make any real progress.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

Me shutty now...

CR



Thank you for that
I'm glad to see some people get it. If you want to contact me offline, I'm looking to work with intelligent people.  

[ Parent ]
Remember, too, that Fong's criticism pertains specifically to Occupy Denver.
In other cities, in stark contrast to Denver, the Occupy movement is actually showing signs of maturing and learning how to be sustainable and increasingly effective. See: Portland ... http://www.portlandoccupier.or...



------------------------------
"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that." --- Britney Spears, September 2003


Yes, certainly...
...your point is well taken.

We can't take any microcosm as a true sampling of the whole.

Certainly this small sampling can't be pointed to to damn a tidal movement.

Or at least let's hope not.

But we can't ignore that the lack of appointed leadership, direction, and focus of the Occupy movement is pointed to with derision by the right wing consistently, and without salient response.

Even Lawrence Lessig, well renown advocate of the Occupy movement, points to the 136 demands of the Occupy Seattle movement (one of the few with ANY list of demands) as being frivolous and diluting.  He contends, and rightfully so in my opinion, that that list should be reduced to ONE demand.

At the risk of coming of as pedantic here, I sincerely suggest that if you, or anyone, is curious as to what that one demand might be, google Lawrence Lessig and listen to what he has to say.  He will convey it far better than I could ever hope to.

Again...sincerely...hey, I'm on your side...I ain't tryin' to be a smart ass here...listen to the guy...he' da BOMB!

CR


[ Parent ]
Response to Fong
Sorry, but as is obvious, I am a raw newb to this forum.

I have no idea as to how to contact you off line.

As an admitted dinosaur, things cyber often discombobulate me.

But yes, I would be very interested in delving deeper into the mysteries of why we can't "all just get along".

The forums I typically are on are somewhat right-wing, and I am affectionately refered to as the "idiot cousin" that everyone tolerates, but hesitates to invite to the family reunion.  I prefer to view it as I am their conscience, they sometimes seem to view it as I am their cross to bear.

Which is a blessing...and a curse...

Don't get me wrong.  Yes, I am a registered Democrat, but only because the state I am in would deny me the ability to vote in primaries if I were to register independent.  I flipped a coin, the Democrats lost and got me.

So if you are more adept at navigating this forum than I and you can contact me, fine...but be aware, I am not the knee-jerk liberal (God...how I HATE those labels!), but in fact strive to see both sides of the issues.

Which means EVERYBODY pretty much stays mad at me...

But I seek common ground, which I KNOW is there...meaning my heart is pure, my quest noble, and therefore have the strength of ten.

Damn...I just KNEW that poli-sci major was going to get me in trouble some day...shoulda gone in to Business Administration like Dad said...

He campaigned for Adlai Stevenson by the way...shows you where my roots are.

CR


Right on,
well I've just been informed that I've been booted from the PR team.

Sad face.

So next in the queue are accusations of

1) mis-loyalty
2) not trying HARD ENOUGH to get along with others
3) otherwise kettle name-calling.

Too predictable.


[ Parent ]
Unreal
Yes, unreal.  Downright surrealistic.

Guilty of pointing out the lack of the Emperor's clothes.  Ja' accuse!

Take heart, it is a Red Badge of Courage with which I am all too familiar.

You are guilty of pointing out that four legs isn't always bad, when the political wind dictated that two legs was the "in" thing today.

Orwell weeps in his grave.  He tried to tell us.

"The prophet is never respected in his homeland" - paraphrased from the Biblical

We moderates must not flag.  We must continue to seek the true middle ground, not the quasi middle ground of JUST the left, or JUST the right, but the true centering of the pendulum between ALL of We, The People.

It's not being wishy-washy, as accusations would suggest.  It's true DEMOCRACY.  Democracy means EVERYBODY, not just the ones that follow your particular drum beat.

It's a lofty goal...as all worthwhile goals are.

Good for you!  You got their attention!

And it pained them.

"A touch, I do confess it!" - MacBeth

CR


[ Parent ]
Crap!
Crap!  It wan't MacBeth...it was Hamlet.

Whatever...it's late, and I'm on my umpteenth Dos Equis...

CR


[ Parent ]
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